Wow, it didn't take long at all to find a [contrived] way to insert Carly into Robin's pregnancy story. Why on earth am I supposed to care what Carly thinks about Robin's pregnancy? I know their history, but seriously.

Secondly, Patrick is an idiot. As many people who have assumed he is the father and he is still oblivious?? Remind me not to go to General Hospital for my next brain surgery.

Lastly...how boring is everything having to do with Sonny, Carly, uh I mean Claudia, the Zaccharas, and the mob?? It's coma inducing. But loving me some Maxie and Spinelli chemistry!! And loving Nadine - she's a doll.

I haven't seen today's show yet but I can already tell I that I will view via youtube since I can't stand it when Carly gets in anyone's face about things that are none of her business (ie Robin's pregnancy, everyone's life, etc.) but also anything having to do with yet another long drawn out mob storyline. Color me sick and tired.

I hope that Carly finds out Patrick is Robin's baby daddy and outs it.

Justice i tell you. Justice.

Well, Liz certainly had long conversations with Jason about Lucky -- but you know what? A lot of them were at work! LOL. In fact, in checking TVMegasites transcripts and recaps I can only find two instances where Elizabeth missed work that entire year: She missed the day after Lucky's funeral then again, less than a week later, when she had to be sent home. Other than that, she not only worked the very next week but also but returned to school. Within 3 weeks she was babysitting Lulu for Laura (who was falling apart), volunteering to help with the Nurse's Ball by painting the backdrops and scenery. The next week she added more duties, volunteering to design and produce t-shirts for the ball. A scant 5 weeks after the funeral she was simultaneously going to school, working, painting, babysitting Lulu multiple times, having a few light-hearted moments with Emily and Nik and even attending the ball. At two months post-funeral she was actually taking on extra shifts at the diner to cover for Penny (whom I don't remember).

As for "bickering" with Carly -- since everybody bickers with Carly I'm having a tough time using that as a measurement of Liz's IQ.

It's tough to say people with unplanned pregnancies are stupid in the GH universe. Just look at Robin! (Sure, she wants a baby but this pregnancy was definitely unplanned.) Not only that, she got HIV after having sex with a mobster's protoge (that's a pretty questionable choice in men) then was Jason's girlfriend for a while as well. Oh, and for years she was Sonny's friend.

I just don't think you can judge anyone on this show for liking the mobsters because that's what the show is ABOUT since Guza took the helm. Alexis had an unplanned pregnancy with a "questionable" man and kept secrets as well -- plus murdered a man. That sort of negates the conclusion you're trying to draw when you hold her up as your example of a "smart" woman.

Now, if Liz just bugs the crap out of you, then there's nothing I can say. (Except that I know how you feel because Marcie on OLTL bugs the hell out of me and apparently she's one step removed from sainthood for a kidnapping whiner!)

Oh, and the whole Ric thing? As you admit, the entire plot was contrived. However, ultimately I think Liz was trusting rather than stupid. The guy *was* her husband. But naivete does not preclude intelligence.

Hee! Are you calling Guza a pimp? (Of course, during most of his 1997-2000 writing he was pimping Jason/Robin parte deux and Jason/Carly.) You say pimp, I say "trial balloon" which TPTB decided against. And even after TPTB nixed the pairing, it was charismatic enough that legions of fans bought into it and demanded a re-pairing (even purchasing ads in the trade mags). Did you know that Liz and Jason get more fan mail and presents than nearly any other pairing? This despite the fact that the powers that be nixed 'em for nearly a decade. (Greg Vaughan gave a great interview about how excited he was to work with Becky Herbst and mentioned the staggering piles of letters and gifts for Liason even back when he started. He also was apparently officially "adopted" by the Liason fans because they liked him too!) Now, I'm not a fangurrl, nor do I get involved in campaigns but that seems to indicate it wasn't "pimping" so much as TPTB rejecting a chemistry that was extremely popular.

Is anyone allowed to disagree with Jason? Well, maybe Carly but only because she's supposed to be irrational during their arguments (and glittery hoo-ha'd at all other times). Also, Liz did go against Jason's advice and try to tell Lucky. Lucky was so focused on blaming Jason that he wouldn't listen.

Much as I dislike Carly, BTW, she's right about one other thing -- Liz has pretty much been in the driver's seat when it comes to decisions about the pregnancy and baby. Jason follows her lead even now, giving her up when she asked him, then coming back to be her part-time luvah! In the instance of the hit and run, since he tends to know more about the justice system, she may be following his lead but even that's questionable given her convo with Lucky the other day.

However, ultimately I think so many scenes and characters in soaps are specifically presented so as to be interpreted through our gut feelings, likes/dislikes. Because I like Liz, I tend to give her the benefit of the doubt when it comes to motivation as well as brain power. You may not feel the same. I've only been a Liason fan since the ONS (and I still think Jason is a killer) but even before that I enjoyed the friendship and appreciation the two of them had for one another. I've always felt she agrees with Jason more out of a deep respect for his opinion (not his work!) and the fact that they know each other so well. Someone at TWoP posted a link of several Jason/Liz moments over the years and I was really impressed with some of their conversations. Liz shared her faults with him long before the ONS -- she admitted to selfishness, bitchiness, jealousy. Over and over again she opened up to him thru the years about the more unattractive elements of her personality as well as her deepest dreams. When you know someone that well you tend to listen to them even if you ultimately go your own way like Liz tried to do with Lucky the other day.

Oh I know they get a crap ton of mail....I have what I call the fart theory..which is "Liz and Jason could be in the same room, not acknowledge each other, not talk to each other, have nothing to do with each other, fart at the same time and I'm going to see a letter in the magazines the next week about awesome they were in that scene and how since they farted at the same time...that means they are perfect together. And Liz mobbed up is awesome!" And I know I'm sounding all picky and bickery...but I do believe that was the Liz/Ric fans who adopted Greg and not the Jason/Liz fans. (Total disclosure I am a member of Greg's fanclub...) and in my experience Jason/Liz fans that I have met tend to bad mouth Greg every chance they get.

Liz has been in the driver's seat wtih all the decisions, however the way I get the impression from the writing (and believe it or not I do love Liz just not this incarnation of her) is that while she is making these decisions, she wants Jason to talk her out of them. And then when he doesn't, we get things like her going off on Patrick to argue parenthood is awesome with the phrase "no one is trying to kill you". Again just ,my opinion. And maybe if their scenes together before the drug storyline weren't so much as Liz informing of Jason that Sam was going to be fine from the umpteenth medical procedure or delivering a message from Emily...then I would have believed the whole Liz turns to Jason thing a bit more...but from what I saw...they went from barely interacting and him not even remembering her when he had the brain clusters (but remembering Robin) to all of the sudden being BFFs again. And also if the writing this time wasn't so blatantly Jason is the only one who's ever been there for Liz always when I can remember times when he just wasn't there or actively working to cover something up from her.

and yes i remember when she called him on his stuff before. but she doesn't now. She should have gone the eff off on him for telling half the town and lying blatantly to her face about who all knew and when for months. Yet her first concern was what would Sam do. Agreed Sam was a loose cannon at the time and she should have been concerned about it, but after Jason assured her he had it covered? She tells Lucky people who love each other shouldn't lie to each other and while I tend to agree with that statement, I'd love to hear her reasoning on that in regards to Jason telling everyone and lying about it. Or her reasoning for why she lied to Jason for so long, if you don't lie to people you love. They had her declaring that in November but continuing to lie about the paternity until February and her feelings until April.

It's my opinion this stuff with Lucky and her almost telling is because Guza thought it was oh so much fun to what Liz almost tell a zillion and seven times about the baby and getting interrupted. And i'm still trying to figure out why just because Liz was on that road, it's going to mean everyone will know that she was on her way to see Jason. Does the road dead end at the safehouse with a big neon arrow that says "JASON'S SAFEHOUSE"? Is the name of this road "Jason's Safe House Way"?

LOL! You're absoloutely right. It was the LiRic fans! Sorry, that's what I get for only listening with half an ear. ;o) And I love at the beginning of that interview when Lisa Rinna hugs him and says, "Oh, you always smell so GOOD!" And Rebecca's comment that "Greg's more funny than Lucky ... I just like Greg better!"

That might explain SBu's constipated "acting" expression at times, wouldn't it?! Quite frankly, vocal fanbases tend to make me nervous. In fact any organized fan base seems a little zealous to me. (I'm sure that's how a lot of people feel about organized religion!) However, I think they get a bum rap because the few overly vocal members give a bad name to the many less vocal fans who have a discerning thoughful belief and are just trying to be supportive. So, for myself, I try not to dismiss any fan base out of hand. The loudies are scary but there are so many intelligent, intuitive people who, because they enjoy a character or pairing, are tuned in to be more receptive to the nuances (much less the long history Jason and Liz have shared). I guess it's like anything in life, if you're open to something you see more because you're paying attention. If you're closed off it's easy to write off.

You have a point because there was a while there where Jason really wasn't a Liz fan. However, there was a time when he wasn't a Robin fan either and they've been able to reconnect and share some very poignant scenes -- and their animousity was much more entrenched than any bad feelings he had for Liz. I think any friendship ebbs and flows -- there are long periods of disconnect but if the underpinnings are there (and just check out YouTube for the underpinnings) they tend to reconnect stronger than ever. (I know I do the same in real life.) So yes, there was some maneuvering of events on Guza's part but in this case their connection was real and reintroduced, not conjured out of thin air.

And it's a valid opinion! I think you're picking up the undercurrents in both the writings and Steve and Becky's performances. I too get the feeling she wants him to talk her out of what she knows is right. But that just underlines the point that Liz *hasn't* abdicated her brain. Just because she throws a few half-hearted comments of "Wouldn't it be nice if .... " doesn't mean she would actually go along with Jason if he did say "I want to claim Jake while staying in the mob." She knows the best thing for Jake is not to be associated with Jason or be used as a weapon. I personally think she's trying to manipulate Jason -- as unattractive as that sounds. I don't remember exact dialogue but that whole scene on the couch recently when she all but asks him to think about giving up his job so they could be a family? Jason looked like a deer in the headlights. (Every guy has had a conversation where the girl tries to change him and in my experience none of them respond well!) I'd argue that she's taking control in a passive (Carly would say sly) way by showing him glimpses of what a family life *could* be, then dropping pointed questions ... but then backing off. She knows if she asks him to leave the mob he'll say no so I think she's letting this be "his idea." But hey, he's all-knowing Jason so he's probably one step ahead of her!

I remember a lot more than that, but I'll take your word for it since you looked up the episodes. All I remembered was constant talking with Jason and painting the wind. My mistake.

She bickered with her about Jason, went to her house, got into that scene where she smacked the bows on the rocking chair for Carly's unborn baby, called the baby a meal ticket, etc. I thought it made both women look very childish. I suppose the show wanted us to be thrilled they were fighting over Jason.

Robin's been written as an idiot (at least in her personal life) for a long time. From a decade ago where she gave up her integrity to play house with Jason and baby Michael to last year going around town with a list so she could ask Jax, Sonny, Spinelli, etc. to father her baby, I might go as far as to say the last people who wrote her with a brain were the Labines.

I also said she was regularly raked over the coals. I think NLG, like Jane Elliot, presents Alexis as a smart woman even when the material isn't there (like Alexis falling for an international criminal who shot an HIV-positive woman for kicks). Guza has made sure we've heard all about her being a bad wife, a bad mother, and so on. Although Alexis at least seemed to realize her pregnancy was a mistake and tried for years to keep Sonny out of Kristina's life, and the man Alexis killed was, IIRC, the man who had killed her sister.

Heh. I know I'm a total pain in the ass. It's just that I didn't remember it that way so it kind of became a sticking point for me. ;o) However, you're right, there were tons of loooong convos with Jason about Lucky that dragged on. I'll give her a pass on the painting since she was ... you know ... a painter at the time (which I don't think indicates brain activity either one way or the other).

See, and much as I like NLG, I think that unlike Jane Elliot, she's beena primary contributor towards the idiotification of Alexi. She is the one who overdid the stuttering, stammering and idiotic giddiness Alexis now manifests. It was an acting choice that pushed mediocre writing over the edge to poor writing and contributed to her own character's assassination. I contrast that with Ric Hearst's ability to overcome bad material as well as Jane Elliot (who can do the most heinous things and also the most idiotic things yet brings a sad, suppressed vulnerability to a very strong woman character). I remember when NLG started that schtick and it infuriated me. She took the character's innate nervous ticks that were interesting with Ned and exaggerated them to the point that Alexis became a babbling fool. I don't ever hold her accountable for inexplicable character choices (like wanting to date Jerry who held her nephew hostage and drugged him). But I hold her responsible for her acting choices and decision to magnify certain character traits which, in turn, give the writers more of an opportunity to decimate the character as they build on that. Your mileage may vary, of course.

But we're getting far afield on various digressions! As for Liz, well, I appreciate the upgrade from "not all that bright" and barely able to show up for work at Kelly's to "intelligent as a nurse" and a disaster in the rest of her life. I don't disagree completely but see it as less a function of brains and more her heart getting her into bad situations. She's not going to play a Mensa candidate, of course, but she shouldn't. She's a soap archetype that Becky Herbst does a good job imbueing with spark and, yes, to me intelligence.

Ok, did anyone else CHOKE at the "Youth Violence Prevention" PSA at the end of today's show?

I have an idea GH. Why don't you STOP GLAMORIZING VIOLENCE on every freaking episode, and stop making heroes out of common thugs, and I think that might help just a tad!!!

Unreal.

Kinda like the SOD cover shot of Claudia with the headline "Has GH gone too far?"

Dudes....GH has been too far for about a decade now.....get a clue and get your noses out of Guza's behind.

They really have some nerve when every man, woman, and even child on this freaking show runs around with a gun. Half of them pull a gun out when the doorbell rings.

Justice for WHAT, pray tell? For the fact that Carly did not just INITIALLY lie about the paternity of her child, but lied until he was well over a year old, to a man who WANTED to be a father-b/c, you know, w/the paragon of motherhood that she was, she had every RIGHT to judge what kind of parent AJ would make. But at least she had a biological connection to Michael. Spencer, however? Nope, she just outright kidnapped him-she took the child of her BEST FRIEND, who wanted said child to be w/his biological father who was NOT Jax, and STOLE HIM. And Robin told Nikolas. And I know that, on GH, had she not told it would have been called "minding her own business"-but, for most normal people, her not telling would have been called "aiding and abetting kidnapping after the fact".
Marianne

I love Robin. I do. However she rides the high moral horse. I like to see anyone who rides that horse knocked down - and who better than Carly?

I am not saying Robin shouldnt have told the truth - both times - however, she also should lie to Patrick.

I don't agree that she rides the moral high horse and never really have. Her mistakes have cost her in her life. Carly on the other hand, has lied, cheated, stolen, and kidnapped to get her way and pretty much always gets away with it. I have rarely seen her get her comeuppance for her deeds. Robin (who was always a loved member of her community) was pretty much turned out of her home, friendships, and relationship with Jason for being honest about Carly's lies.

I see what you are saying, but its like saying killing a killer isnt murder. Robin is lying. She is keeping the secret of who the father of her baby is, and i think it would be great if Carly was the one to out it.

I undersatnd - Guza is a hack. I loath the man like the rest of you, however what he writes does still reflect on these people we watch. I saw Robin call Carly's son a basterd. Well... pot, meet kettle. Not that i am really comparing the two. Robin is the better person, by far, and no doubt. however, still.